The Sam Acho Podcast

Sam Acho: Oh my gosh.

Welcome everyone to the Sam Acho
podcast featuring Cliff Marshall.

And just like always, this
one's a little bit different.

We usually have special guests.

This guest is a little bit
more special than most.

Clif Marshall: Sam, we are so pumped
today to have Jay Harris with us.

He's a guy I've watched
for many years on tv.

Jay is a journalist who has
worked for ESPN since 2003.

He has hosted a variety of shows
during his tenure on ESPN, including

SportsCenter outside the lines NFL
Live Baseball tonight and first take.

Jay is not only an iconic sports
anchor, he's also a husband, a

father, and a strong man of faith.

In addition to that, though,
he is also Sam Machos coworker.

So Jay, welcome to the podcast.

Jay Harris: led with that last
one, to be honest with you.

Sam Acho: Jay, you were nodding
your head doing the intro.

You, it sounds like you
like the intro a little bit.

So you like the intro?

Jay Harris: You know what I was wondering?

'cause I, I honestly, I hate it
when people read my bio normally I

inter, normally I interrupt and go.

No one wants to hear that.

No one wants to hear that.

No one, that's just, that's just stuff.

Stuff I did means nothing.

It matters not, um, but, but it was
short and, and you know, when he

said iconic, I figured I'd shut up.

'cause I, I liked that one.

I liked that part.

Clif Marshall: Yeah.

Well, Jay, I want to know, just
first and foremost, I grew up wanting

to be like an NFL football player.

Did you grow up wanting
to be a sports anchor?

Jay Harris: Um, no, no.

I grew up wanting to be,
uh, just a journalist.

Uh, the first job that I wanted was
Brent Mus Burger's at CBS Sports.

That's what I, I looked up to.

Um, I got into News first Radio news.

So I kind of shifted and, um, the
Today Show, good Morning America.

That was kind of my goal.

Um, but I just wanted to be a storyteller.

I didn't necessarily want
to be news or sports.

Sam Acho: Hmm.

Jay, how hard was it?

You talked about wanting to be a
storyteller and having that being your

goal, but in a lot of people's eyes,
you're at the top or close to the top,

or if you're at the, the, the worldwide

leader, how hard was it getting?

To the worldwide leader in sports.

Jay Harris: Um, you know, all of us have
different stories and I'll, I'll, I'll do

this story in a, in a condensed version.

It wasn't hard at all.

It was just a series of things
that lined up, that seemed to

line up as, as, as our lives go.

Um, I was, okay, I'll go
back to the beginning.

I, I started in in, in radio news at a
small station in Portsmouth, Virginia, and

moved, uh, moved over to the, the FM side.

And in 1988, um, I had a, a part-time
job at a record store at, on right

on the waterfront of Virginia Beach.

So I had a front row seat for the, uh,
labor Fest slash Greek Fest riots of

that year when the City of Virginia
Beach was tired of all these black

college students coming into town.

And it was a clash between a bunch
of students, literally students

and, and the police and the city.

And it was a mess.

And I was working at the radio
station at the time and I had a

front row seat for everything.

So I filed stories on the
event, uh, as it was happening.

And I filed stories to the, uh,
Sheridan Broadcasting Network,

now known as American Urban Radio
Networks at the time, the largest

black radio network in the country.

And, um, they liked my work.

They brought me up for an interview and
they were hiring someone for their local

side 'cause they were moving the local
anchor to the national desk and, and

that was my first full-time media job.

So, alright, I'm gonna fast forward.

Um, a gentleman came to the network by the
name of Fred Brown, um, and he was my boss

that Fred left and went to ESPN Radio.

Okay.

Um, and moved from radio to recruiting.

Um, at the end of my, I had since moved
over from radio to television, so at

the end of my television contract,
I sent a tape for Fred to critique

because I trusted his opinion and he,
unbeknownst to me, showed it to some

folks at ESPN and they liked my tape.

And I kind of was like, why did
you show ESPN people my tape?

'cause I don't even do sports.

I do news.

I've been doing news
for the past 12 years.

He's like, I know, but I liked
it and I wanted them to see it.

So.

Long story after that.

Short, they liked it, wanted to hire me.

They auditioned me, and
I've been there 22 years.

But at first I didn't want, I
didn't want the job because I didn't

wanna change from news to sports.

So I kind of, I kind of
turned them down, uh, twice.

But they were, they were
persistent and insistent.

So they, they won.

Sam Acho: Why, why did you
end up finally saying yes?

Jay Harris: Well, because
all of my friends thought

I was stupid for saying no.

And my, my wife kind of also probably
thought the same thing as she got out the

legal pad that morning after I'd finally
decided I was gonna go and I woke up

the next morning going, I'm not going.

I don't want to go.

I don't want to do sports.

I want to do news.

'cause I was in that mode.

And, and she gave me that look, that,
that, that says, you poor, poor,

stupid fellow, I'm going to save
you from yourself in this moment.

Got out the legal pad, lined
down the middle, pros and cons.

And the, the, the health benefits
and the Disney benefits alone made

it the best decision that she and
my friends and everybody else made.

'cause given, if I left it to myself,
I'd have probably messed it up again.

I'd have probably said no.

'cause I'm just, I was just
like, I didn't wanna go.

Because I didn't wanna
pick him up and move him.

And the boy was little at the time, and
I, I don't know, I just wasn't thinking,

I just wasn't thinking right, fellas, I
just wasn't thinking I was outta my mind,

I was thinking like this and I should
have been thinking like, like that.

So it worked out.

So the answer to your question, it
wasn't really hard to get there.

I just need to get outta my own way.

Sam Acho: Hmm.

Clif Marshall: Jay, I gotta ask you, I'm
a little nervous interviewing you today

because I've watched you for so many years
on SportsCenter, but I wanna ask you,

Jay Harris: Why are you nervous?

Clif Marshall: I, I don't know.

I just feel like I've been watching you
for so long, waking up to SportsCenter

Jay Harris: Look, you gonna say so long.

One more time, and I'm
gonna leave this podcast.

Sam Acho: Hey, you said 1988.

I said, oh, man, I, I might've
been in the womb in 1988.

Clif Marshall: For a couple years, Jay.

Jay, for a couple

Jay Harris: That's better.

That's much better.

Clif Marshall: but I wanna
ask you, were you nervous?

I wanna ask you, were you nervous
for your first SportsCenter show?

Jay Harris: oh heck yeah.

Well, no.

Well, okay.

My first SportsCenter show, I was nervous.

But I wasn't as nervous as
I was for my very first show

period, which was on ESPN news.

I was frightened to do that show
because observing for almost a

month and seeing how fast it was,
I mean, coming from anchoring the

local news, which if unless you have
breaking news, it is not fast paced.

It is as scripted.

And you, you and most anchors
don't even write their own stuff.

We write our own stuff at at,
at ESPN, at Sports Center.

But when I was a, a main anchor in
Pittsburgh, I, the, the associate

producer wrote most of the stuff.

And my co-anchor and I, we copied,
we were copy editors basically.

So I had to write the show.

You know, I had to make sure my number,
we had a coordinating producer that

would look over the scripts, make sure
we didn't say anything libelous or crazy.

Um.

And we had a researcher who
would make sure that we had the

right numbers and, and whatnot.

The trends and the stats for
whatever games, whatever highlights.

But it was just the fact that at
any moment, and this happened, you

could be in the middle of doing a
highlight and the producer would

get in your ear and say, Hey, we got
the star of the game standing by.

Uh, you're gonna talk to Giannis
Antetokounmpo Think of some questions

as I'm doing the Bucks highlight.

And I'm like, uh, okay.

Uh, Giannis.

Okay.

I know who he is.

Okay.

Uh, uh, shucks.

As I'm reading the highlight, trying to
think of some questions for Giannis and

at the end of the highlight, there he is.

I'm just, it wasn't Giannis, it was
a few other people, but I'm just

using Giannis as an example and there
he is and I have to talk to him.

So that was how ESPN news
was every single day.

So SportsCenter wasn't that
crazy, um, most days back then.

So when I did my first
SportsCenter, I was like.

Wow, I could, I could
do this all the time.

This is, this is pretty easy nowadays.

Not so much because, you know, we
welcome breaking news these days and

just, things just, just happen and
I welcome breaking news these days

'cause it just makes the show more fun.

But back then, yeah, ESPN News terrified
me much more than Sports Center did.

Sam Acho: Hmm.

Jay, you are an old Dominion alum, right?

Way, way,

Jay Harris: Go Monarchs.

See?

There you go.

See?

There you go.

See, see, see

Sam Acho: What?

What?

Jay Harris: I was going, I was gonna pull
my helmet, my helmet off the shelf and

Sam Acho: Oh.

Clif Marshall: Oh,

Jay Harris: Monarchs.

But no, you had to go way long back
there, back like what you said, Sam.

So it's been fun.

It's been fun doing
the podcast with y'all.

Sam Acho: Jay, what would you tell the
22 or the 21-year-old Jay Harris now?

Jay Harris: I would tell him to do more
than one internship and to pay attention

and to really, um, dig into it because
that's what you say you want to do.

So act like it because I don't
think I, I don't think I was a very

good intern, to be honest with you.

Um, I would also tell him to, um, network
better, uh, learn the people in your

area, uh, join organizations, um, be on
folks radar, uh, do more shadowing and,

and, and really becoming a professional
journalist without a job, just trying

to, you know, fit myself into that mold.

I would tell him that.

I would also tell him, don't be so shy.

Raise your hand, ask
questions, uh, knock on doors.

Um, trust yourself more than the,
than my, my 22-year-old self did.

I would tell myself a lot of things.

I would also tell myself not to
stop playing basketball because.

Clif Marshall: Hmm.

Sam Acho: Well, hold on.

Yeah.

Why?

Jay Harris: Because basketball
is like the best sport, at least

for me for staying in shape.

It was fun and I went through
a period where I didn't play.

Now, now my knees don't like me to play.

My knees would rather
go to the golf course.

So I, like, I, I let my body get out of
basketball playing shape and I should

have, I should have kept that up.

Clif Marshall: Jay, you mentioned earlier
in the show about being a storyteller

that you enjoy being a storyteller,
and I watched recently you told a

story on Good Morning America that you
were diagnosed with prostate cancer.

Can you, can you walk us through that?

Um.

meeting that you had with the doctor
and the feelings that you experienced

when he had announced your diagnosis?

Jay Harris: Sure.

Um, just to make sure my
doctor doesn't get mad.

It's, she's a sheep.

Clif Marshall: Oh, sorry

Jay Harris: Yeah.

Um, my father, uh, had prostate cancer.

He, uh, he, he's no longer with us, but
it wasn't because of prostate cancer.

He beat it.

He was, uh, with the radiation,
he was, he came through it fine.

Um, so it was always on my radar.

You know, they ask you your family
history, any history of blah, blah, blah.

Say, well, yeah, my dad
had prostate cancer.

Okay, so we're gonna watch that.

So we've always watched my PSA numbers.

Um.

As I got older, you know, there
different variables affect your PSA.

So I think it was last year, between two
and four are the acceptable, um, is the

acceptable, I don't know the word, but
in there is is acceptable above four.

Eh, so my PSA was 4.1,

but I was older.

Different things can affect it
and, and we talked about it.

My doctor said, let's watch it.

We will watch it.

Okay.

And I said, cool.

Alright, that sounds, that sounds fair.

So we did the blood test, the
following, my following annual

physical, and it was 6.3.

Clif Marshall: Hmm.

Jay Harris: and she said,
you're going to a urologist?

I'm like, yes, ma'am.

So, um, the, uh, urologist, um,
gave me the digital exam, which

confirmed the fears that my primary
doctor thought and sent me to get

an MRI and the MRI confirmed it.

Well, the MRI said there's something
there that the MRI thought was cancer.

And then I needed to get a biopsy
and the biopsy confirmed it.

Um, and then I got the, uh, PET scan,
which basically I had to, um, be

injected with radioactive fluid and they
put me through a little donut machine

and where whatever lit up in my body
was where the cancer had spread to,

Clif Marshall: Hmm.

Jay Harris: and it only
lit up on my prostate.

Clif Marshall: Wow.

Jay Harris: That was the day that.

Me and my, my, my family really
kind of exhaled with this, right?

Um, 'cause it hadn't spread.

Then we scheduled the surgery and
I chose surgery over radiation.

Um, they both have pretty similar
success rates, although if you choose the

radiation and something comes back later
down the road, surgery is not an option.

With surgery, if something happens, if
there's a recurrence, then like targeted

radiation is still an option with me.

So that's why I chose the surgery.

Um, but when, honestly, when she
gave me the way she told me, what

she told me, um, I don't know.

I kind of ex, I kind of expected it.

I think I, I, I, I'm one of
those people who like thinks the

worst, the absolute worst, so I
can reel it back if it's better.

As opposed to, as opposed
to going, ah, it's nothing.

And then being disappointed
every step of the way.

Uh, I'd rather make myself crazy in the
beginning and then, and then come back.

So, yeah, that's, it's kind of a, it
was kind of a rollercoaster, but again,

since my dad had it and, and, and since
I'm a black man and we get it like two

times more, um, I kind of expected it.

My, a good friend of mine said to
see if it's some, it's something

you will, you will die with.

Or die from?

'cause we just seem to get it.

Sam Acho: In that same interview,
Jay, you had mentioned that.

You said you would come back better than

ever.

Jay Harris: Mm-hmm

Sam Acho: Where does
that strength come from?

Jay Harris: Hmm.

Well my grandparents were praying
people, um, you know, parents too.

But yeah, I go back to my
grandparents 'cause they were

like the rocks of the family.

Um.

Some things you just have to do, right?

You have to, you have to rely
on whatever faith you have.

You have to rely on your family.

You have to rely on yourself
to get through things and

coming back better than ever.

I didn't think what I, I don't,
didn't think I had a choice

because I'd made a decision.

You know, we prayed about it.

We made the decision and.

And okay, so now, especially when
the doctor says, yeah, I got it all,

you don't have any more cancer in.

You think I have no choice but
to come back better than ever.

To be an example, to share my story,
to talk to complete strangers who,

who send me messages on social media.

And my network of folks has
grown just so tremendously.

Uh, you think you're going
through something by yourself.

You're never by yourself
no matter what it is.

There's always someone else who
shares whatever you're going through.

So it's not the fraternity that I wanted
to join, but it's the one that I'm in.

And if I can make a difference to
somebody or something, an experience

that I had or something that I can
share, that's what I'm supposed to do.

So yeah, that's where
the strength comes from.

'cause it's what I'm supposed to do.

Choosing Family Over Career
AmbitionChoosing Family Over

Career AmbitionAnd if I didn't
do it, my grandmother would come

back from the grave and slap me.

And I don't want that.

'cause the woman got me with a
switch one time in the front yard.

Oh my God.

Woo.

I still, you know, you only,
it's like you, you only need one.

You only, that was my one.

I didn't need no more.

After that, that woman, Sinbad
used to joke about it like his

grandmother had the rubber hand.

She would come from behind, behind
the back, don't you run from me?

And her hand would be like, sit.

My grandmother had that same
rubber arm and rubber hand.

She just grabbed me and pulled me in and
pulled this oak tree out from the back

of her back and just went to work on.

Wow, man.

Yeah.

Whew.

I don't know where

Sam Acho: what did you do?

What did you, what did you
do to get to, to, to, to,

uh,

Jay Harris: I don't even know.

I don't, I think I, I, she
beat the memory outta me.

I don't know what I did.

Oh, I did.

I I know I ran away.

I know, I, she said, come here.

And I'm like, no.

And I took off down the hill and sat there
and I was like, I gotta go back sometime.

And she was just waiting for me.

She was just waiting for me in
the yard, just sitting on the

porch, just waiting for me.

I had started crying
before I even got to her.

'cause I knew what was coming.

I knew

Sam Acho: Oh.

Clif Marshall: wow.

Sam Acho: Hmm.

Clif Marshall: Jay, I think of
um, you know, nine 11, I think

of the death of Kobe Bryant.

I think of some of the things that
you've covered while you were at ESPN.

I wanted to ask you, what are the
most impactful events that you can

recall over the course of the years
while you've been working with

ESPN and that you've had to cover?

Jay Harris: I get that question a
lot and I never have a good answer.

Because the, the part you
said that you can recall.

I, I wish I kept a diary of
like things that happened daily.

I really wish I had, uh, 'cause
there have been so many stories.

The one that I end up using
or going with is July 4th.

I think it was 2009.

Uh, I was anchoring, it was a
Saturday and I was gonna anchor sports

Center with my, my buddy Mike Hill.

Um, who's no longer at ESPN And we
were gonna have some fun coming off

the Nathan's hotdog eating contest.

We're gonna go to the cafeteria
and we're gonna have him make

some these big salads for us.

'cause we were gonna have a healthy
eating contest on the set that day.

And we're sitting there prepping
for the show, writing our show.

And, um, our coordinating producer is on
this, this newish thing called Twitter.

And, and basically it said
that Steve McNair had died.

And we were like, ex, ex, excuse me.

Um, and Nashville TV station is reporting
that, that Steve McNair is, was like dead.

And um, Mike had worked in Nashville.

So he called some folks and
our news desk confirmed it.

And we were just talking about
this the other day actually.

Um, he, he told Eddie George the
news, 'cause Eddie didn't know.

And his teammate, he didn't know we, and,
and I'm sure Mike didn't mean to do that,

but he was like, Hey, we heard this thing.

And Eddie was like, what?

So huh.

That was a day.

I mean, you start off, I talk
about before about breaking news

and, and things being as scripted.

You start off with this one hour show
where you're, you're gonna have this

stupid salad eating contest following,
um, the hotdog eating contest.

Um.

And something happens and your one hour
fun fest turns to a two hour show where

you have to talk about this guy who you'll
watch play football since he was running

around at Alcorn State, just making people
look silly with his legs and his arm.

And he was third in the Heisman voting
and I thought he should have won it.

'cause I was partial to Steve McNair
that brother could play, I mean.

And he just, and he comes into the
NFL and into a situation, and this

is the opinion Jay, that I didn't
think really showcased his skills.

I mean, I didn't think he
should have been sitting behind

anyone, let the brother play.

'cause the brother could play, but
he's like, he and he's, he's dead.

And we're like, oh my,

uh, and you know, and then the, the, the,
the story comes out and, you know, Steve

is, is just as flawed as the rest of us.

And he has some issues.

Um, but did that, that was, that's the
one that, that always pops up after.

I don't know how to answer that question.

I should just probably just answer
that question with that answer.

Clif Marshall: Mm-hmm.

Wow.

Sam Acho: Jay, we, we talk a lot
on this podcast about adversity.

Um, you know, one thing I talk about is
going first, giving space, growing hope.

What have been some challenges that you've
faced, whether in your life or career?

Um, that you'd be willing to share
with us on how you're able to overcome?

Jay Harris: Hmm.

Well, I guess the whole cancer
thing's probably a challenge.

So that's, that'd be one.

Um, the whole cancer thing.

I don't like, I don't like
giving cancer that much, that

much air or credit or whatever.

I kind of don't like to even say the word
'cause cancer can kiss my, you know what?

Cancer sucks really.

I mean it does.

Um, you know, just probably
just, honestly, nothing in

particular, just everyday stuff.

Just waking up and feeling and
realizing, okay, like this, the house

and the people in this house are on me.

I have to get up and I
gotta go do my thing.

I gotta make it happen and I have
to continue to make it happen.

Um, and I don't know if I
would call that adversity.

I would just call that life and doing the
things that you need to do when you need

to do them, for who you need to do them.

Um, so I think if I don't, if I, if you
allow me to change your question, um,

me just a little every day, just life.

Because life, just be life in
sometimes, and you have to, and

you have to adjust on the fly.

And sometimes whatever decision
you make in the moment has

long lasting ramifications.

So you have to make the
best decisions that you can.

Um, sometimes you don't make
the great decisions and you

have to change midstream.

Um, but just, you know,
tackling life every day.

First of all, waking up in the morning,
opening your eyes, you're like, okay.

I got through that part.

Now let me go do something
with this blessing that I have

for being able to wake up.

So I guess life if, if you don't mind,
kind of copping out on your question.

Sam Acho: No, that's great.

No, that's great.

Clif Marshall: Jay, I think
it's so cool talking to Sam.

I get to hear about, you know,
the, the guys that he gets to work

with on a day-to-day basis at ESPN.

One of the guys you got to
work with was Stuart Scott.

What was it like working with him?

Mm-hmm.

Jay Harris: We only got to do one show
together because our schedules are so

opposite and he was always on the road.

Um, but people get caught up in
the, it, it's funny, I'm wearing

the shirt, the Booyah, this
Jimmy V Foundation shirt today.

Um, people get caught up in the Booyah.

People get caught up in the cooler
than the other side of the pillow.

People get caught up in
the catchphrases and stuff.

Um, I watched a virtuoso journalist.

I watched a guy who could, who
would take his time and tell a

story and make it entertaining,
factual, and just jaw dropping.

Um, I, I saw a guy who would be able to
ask the researcher like the right question

to make his shot sheet that much better.

Make his highlight that much better
as he was, you know, telling it to the

audience who was watching the show.

Um, he was just brilliant.

The brother was brilliant.

The brother was a brilliant storyteller.

He was an amazing journalist, and he
was so much more than any catchphrase.

So, I mean, I, I would love for people
to remember him for the work, not

necessarily the flash or any of the stuff.

Just the work.

The brother could work and
outwork anybody in this business.

Sam Acho: Hmm.

Jay, I know you're still young in
your career, but how do you want to be

Jay Harris: Don't try to
get back on my good side.

Sam Acho: I know it's too late, man.

I know.

late.

It's too late.

It's too late.

It's too late.

Jay Harris: Um, that's a great question.

I don't know, uh, because I am quite young
in my career and I have a long way to go.

Thank you very much for recognizing that.

Um, someone who gave
it his best every day.

Someone who's a, a team player.

Um, someone who tried to, to, to, to
do his best, who wasn't perfect, but

someone who was authentic and even
when he wasn't perfect, um, was able

to say, yeah, that wasn't perfect.

I saw, I'm gonna work on
getting it better this time.

'cause I, I think.

And I use this example, if something
goes wrong on television, people like

to say we had technical difficulties.

I don't know what that means.

We had, we had this happen the other day.

We were, we were, we had gotten the,
the first hour of the show done and we

were running back some segments on the
computer and our, our playback machine

in the middle of a segment just stopped.

And I was eating my breakfast
at the time 'cause I was hungry.

And I said, is that, did
that stop in the studio?

Or did that stop?

Like for everyone who's watching
the show and they said it stopped

for everyone who's watching the
show, the machine just died.

So we're gonna come back after this
commercial break and I want you

to like say we had some technical
difficulties, blah, blah, blah.

And I said, okay, what happened?

Playback machine died.

I said, okay, that's what
I'm going to tell them.

And we came back on and I said,
welcome back to SportsCenter.

Um, I think I was working with,
uh, Scooby at the time, um,

and introduced us and I said.

We were watching the show and the playback
machine die, and if the playback machine

dies, you can't play anything back.

So I think we got it
fixed now, knock on wood.

So enjoy the rest of Sports Center
and they hit play and it rolled.

But I felt in that moment, I'm just gonna
be honest and tell 'em what happened.

So maybe, I think sometimes people
probably don't want me to do that.

Because I don't know, I'm not telling
secrets, not the TV folks, but I mean,

it's just the way I, I feel we should be,
because the more authentic you are, the

more real you are, the more the people.

People trust you.

And, uh, I like to think people
trust me and, and I'm gonna give them

the real, whether it's good or bad.

Sam Acho: Hmm.

Clif Marshall: That's great.

Jay, you're not only a sports
anchor, you're also a husband

and you're also a father.

How do you balance work in life?

Sam Acho: Hmm.

Jay Harris: Carefully.

Um, it's easier now because the kids are
old and they don't necessarily want to

hang out with, you know, this older guy.

Um, I lose, I still get hugs.

That's kind of cool from
the boy and the girl.

So I, I, I like that.

Um, but when they were younger, there were
a lot of things that I just didn't choose

to try and do because, like, I didn't
wanna be in a living out of a suitcase.

I didn't wanna be traveling.

I didn't want to do, I wanted
to, I wanted to be present.

So I.

Probably cost myself some opportunities
to do certain things, but I gained

the opportunity to be present and
to see things that I would've missed

that are worth more than any job
opportunity worth, more than any

extra zeros on the paycheck worth.

Much more than all of that stuff.

So I, I, I chose it.

I, I think I chose it very carefully.

The things that, uh, I could bring
them to, uh, I would bring them to.

Um, to try and, um,
you know, include them.

Um, so yeah, very carefully because
work-life balance is something that, and

I, I tell you, uh, ESPN and Disney, not to
be like a a a a company, uh, a company guy

right now, but work-life balance is one of
the things that, that is drilled into us.

You have to find it.

You have to find it.

Um, because if you give it all
the work, work will take it.

Work will take it and,
and, and wear you out.

And then you'll be sitting there and
like worn out and work will go on to

someone else who wants to take it.

'cause work just keeps work, keeps going.

No matter what your job
is, work will keep going.

You have to tell work.

I'm gonna chill out for
the next 45 minutes.

I will see you when I get back.

And work can go, Hey,
wait, wait, wait, wait.

And you can go, well, the
show, the show will go on.

The show always goes on.

If I wasn't here, the
show would be going on.

You'd be talking to somebody else.

So work.

You stand down and I see you in 45
minutes and work will go, okay, you right.

My bad.

My bad.

Because work knows.

Work knows.

You have to let work
act on what work knows.

Clif Marshall: Hmm.

Sam Acho: Hmm.

Clif Marshall: Wow.

Sam Acho: it hard?

Was it hard for you to do that?

Jay Harris: I the beginning.

Yes.

Because, you know, you're new, you
wanna prove yourself, you wanna

be there, you wanna be available,
someone calls you to work.

Yes, I can do it.

Yes, I'll do it.

I volunteer for that shift.

I can do it.

Um, but I had gotten practice before we
got to ESPN, uh, when the boy was born,

because at the time I was transitioning
from radio to television and literally,

sometimes it works seven days a week.

But when he was born.

I said, you know what?

The part-time radio thing,
I'm gonna let that go.

'cause I don't need to do that right now.

And if a bill doesn't get paid,
it'll get paid next month because

hanging out with this newborn fellow
is worth more than anything right

now, and that's what I'm going to do.

So I had a little practice
with that before I got to ESPN.

Sam Acho: I wanna follow up briefly.

We talk a lot about
faith, family, football,

finances on this podcast,
but you mentioned earlier

about what really matters.

My question for you, Jay Harris, is how
do, how do you win without losing it all?

Jay Harris: I don't
know if you do, I mean.

You're gonna have to lose something.

Um, whether it be, like I said
before, opportunities because you

choose to, to, um, be present, um,
bad habits, you lose bad habits.

Um, some you're gonna lose
something all the time.

You just have to make sure that whatever
you're winning or whatever you're gaining.

Um, is what you're supposed to be doing.

Does that make sense?

Sam Acho: But yes it does.

But how do you know?

Maybe a better question.

How do you know what the right target is?

Jay Harris: Yeah.

I don't know if you do.

I, I, you, you pick the target that
feels right or looks right or sounds

right or through counsel is right at
the moment and then you just go for it.

Um, I, that's the be
that's all you can do.

To definitively know that every
decision and everything you

do is the right thing to do.

I don't think it's possible.

I, I don't think anyone can do that.

That's some prognostication I'm gonna ask.

I'm gonna ask you for the lottery
numbers if you can do that.

'cause that's some serious foretelling
of the future to make every single

decision the correct decision.

Mm-hmm.

Clif Marshall: of being with your family.

And at the end of every show, I
always like to do a cliff note

because my name's Cliff Marshall.

So the cliff note I wrote down in talking
to you today is about being present with

your children and being with your family,
even though you may have missed some

opportunities within, you know, your work.

And I think that Tom, my cliff
note is this, Tom is the only

thing that money cannot buy.

And as I'm reflecting on my children,
I have a 10-year-old and a 14-year-old.

Jay Harris: Woo.

You were right in it.

Clif Marshall: I'm right in it.

And I'm also a coach.

I'm a strength and conditioning coach.

I've just spent the last eight
years as the head strength and

conditioning coach for the Indiana
Hoosiers men's basketball team.

And in the

Jay Harris: more kids?

Clif Marshall: that's right.

In the coaching profession though,
hard because you're away from

your family so often and I think.

What you've spoken to me today is that
regarding my family, time with kids, time

with your spouse is really important,
and I believe that time is spelled LOVE.

That's my cliff note for today.

Thank

Jay Harris: like it.

You're very welcome.

I'm gonna send you, I'm, I'm gonna
give you my Venmo so you can,

you can pay me for that, huh?

Clif Marshall: That's right.

Sam Acho: Hey, why,
why sending out Venmos?

Hey, we can send mine too.

Um, my last question is this, J Harris,
you get interviewed all the time,

you get a chance to
interview people all the

Jay Harris: Mm-hmm.

Sam Acho: What, what's the question
that we should be asking you?

Like, what's the question that
you wish that you were asked?

Jay Harris: Whew.

That's a great question.

No one's ever asked me that before.

Um.

Hmm.

I'd have to think about that.

I honestly don't know in the moment.

I don't, I don't know.

What's the question that I want you ask?

Um,

I don't know.

I don't know.

How did that fourth grade
heartbreak affect your life?

Maybe

Clif Marshall: Right there

Jay Harris: Uh.

Clif Marshall: There you go.

Sam Acho: I got a

fourth grade heartbreak too, so I know.

I know where you're coming from.

Wow,

Clif Marshall: Well, Jay, oh, Sam,
real quick before we close it,

Jay Sam talked so highly of you,
uh, working with you at ESPN, and,

and he told me that last year you
invited him over to your house for

Thanksgiving, which I think is incredible.

Sam, I gotta ask you,
how was Jay's cooking?

Sam Acho: Hey, I don't
know if he did the cooking.

I don't know how much
of the cooking Jay did

the food.

Okay.

The food was amazing.

So his wife's cooking and it
might have been, I dunno if your

daughter did any of the cooking too.

I think his wife and his
daughter did some of the cooking.

Jay Harris: Yeah.

We, they, they did?

No, the Tyra, that daughter
didn't cook any, no.

Tyra didn't cook a thing?

No, no.

Uh, my wife cooked and, and we have
a place here that we always, we

order from, 'cause we like their
food to kind of supplement the meal.

Uh, and some folks
brought some stuff over.

Um.

But yeah, that was, I, I cooked nothing.

I, I, I, I, I, I paid for what we bought.

That's what I did that,

Sam Acho: hey, I'll, I'll,
I'll, I'll put it this way.

I'll put it this way.

I ca this actually, it wasn't,
so it was like maybe two year,

maybe my first year at ESPN.

So maybe 2, 3, 3 years ago or so.

Jay Harris: yeah.

We need to have you back.

Sam Acho: I know I need,
I, I I would love to

come back.

Uh, but look, put it this way,
I came, I came to his house.

I ate, I took a flight to go back to work.

'cause I was working on Thanksgiving
and I was eating, eating, uh, his

wife's food and, and also the one he
that he purchased as well outside.

the commercial break.

And so the food was banging.

Hey, the food was banging.

Put it that way.

Clif Marshall: Wow.

Jay Harris: Good.

Good.

Sam Acho: So I appreciate it.

Jay.

I haven't been back, I haven't
been back on Thanksgiving.

Uh, and part of it too, I mean, it's,
it's these conversations, right?

It's me trying to figure out, okay, what,
how do you win without losing at all?

Like

what, you know, people talk about, um,
you know, juggling different things and

juggling, whether it's a, knowing when
it's a glass, uh, ball or a rubber ball.

Right.

Glass ball.

Maybe it's like a family event, right?

Rubber.

Okay.

Maybe it's, you've said
yes to a hundred different

things at work, and there's one thing
that, that, uh, that someone else said

no to, that you're being asked to do
that it's okay to say no because there's

something else that's a glass cliff.

You talked about your family that
matters, and so part of the reason I'm

so grateful for you and your friendship
and your mentorship and your example,

Jay, is the fact that I feel like
you've done that really, really well.

There's so many people in the industry
who have chased success and they've

climbed to the top of the ladder.

But you look at it, the family
is nowhere to be found, right?

Faith is fading and financially
they might be winning, but they're

losing in so many other areas.

But I see you when I, I think literally
it was probably my first thing, first

or second time, uh, year at ESPN,
and we maybe did a show, I don't know

how many shows we did, and you're
like, Hey man, come to the house.

Come over for Thanksgiving, come spend
time with me, and I got a chance to see

you and see you as a husband and as a
father, not just as a, a sportscaster.

And that's stuff that
I care about mo more.

I don't want just be a really
good s uh, broadcaster.

I wanna be a good husband
and a good father, right?

I have a friend who coaches basketball.

He says, faith, he wants to build
faithful husbands and loving fathers.

And so when I see you, Jay Harris,
that's why when we talked about

who do we want as a guest on this
podcast, and I mean, you were the,

one of the first names I brought up.

He's like, who do you
spend time with at DS pn?

I was like, man, I don't get a chance
to spend as much time with Jay.

He's like, but you are Jay, A guy
that I look up to and I admire.

So really, I want to say thank you
and to try and get back on your good

side from the whole, the whole, you
know, centuries and centuries comment.

Jay Harris: That was, that's okay.

That was funny.

Uh, I appre I appreciate,
I appreciate those words.

Now I got issues.

Um, I, I, you know, I made
mistakes, you know, you know, I,

I, I am authentically imperfect.

I just try to be better the next time.

It's like doing a show, it's like
doing a show, um, where people think.

Uh, I had this conversation, uh,
at, at a convention recently.

You know, you, you've
arrived like, no, I haven't.

I, I arrived to work every day.

That's as close to
arriving as I've gotten.

You know, I, I want to have a good
show today and I wanna reflect on

it, and I want have a better show
tomorrow and the day after that.

I want that to be better
than the show previously.

Uh, that's, that's the way
I try to think and live.

Everything may not go right on
Tuesday, but Wednesday's coming.

And, you know, everything may not, I
may not make all the right decisions

on Wednesday, Thursday's coming
and just keep it going because

you have, you have the opportunity
every day to change things, correct.

Things for the better.

So try and do that as much as you can.

Sam Acho: Hmm.

That's good.

That's good.

Well, Jay Harris, thank you so
much for joining the Sam Macho

podcast featuring Cliff Marshall.

Uh, we are so grateful not only
for your time, your talent.

But also your willingness to share
your wisdom, not just with me

and not just with Cliff, but with
everyone else who's listening.

Uh, for anybody else who wants to
join or listen to the Sam Macho

podcast, go to sam macho.com

and we'll see you soon.